Different suggestions to controlling inflation

[lostwitch]

I have been reading and thinking a lot this last few days. I have read people suggestions and also Eric ideas to reduce the inflation and if many of those ideas can be good, most of the time they are going to end up hurting one part of the members:

-Reducing the amount of money availiable in volcanoes and ruins is going to hurt the newbie and middle range players who are playing for fun. Same with raising the cost of upgrade or raising the level of upgrade.  The goal for these players is to be able to reach 20/20 and be able to compete with the top player, anything that makes it harder on them is not fair.... they are not causing the problem as they are using their MD to upgrade so they should not have to suffer the consequence.

-Changing the way attack/defence work to give a change to a player with lower attack to win is not fair to all the players who did work their way up to level 20/20. A change like that could have been made in August or early September but now it's just too late to make such a change.

-Putting a cap on payout. It's unfair to all players who have put money on the game to limit them on how much they can get. It's also unfair to all people who have played the game without cashing out until now. I also don't think that it's a solution that will work unless you MD are brought back to zero no matter how much is in the account.


That was my objections to the current solutions but I have also been thinking of alternative suggestions:

First there is 3 groups of players and each of them has to be address differently:

Group 1: the hoarder
Group 2: the newbie and middle range players
Group 3 the Top players (20/20)

The group 2 is not contribuing to the inflation as they are spending on upgrade as soon as they have enough money. The only thing that needs to be done is to keep them interested in the game so they keeep playing it for fun.

 
Part 2 will follow soon

[lostwitch]

The group 1 is a big contributor to the inflation problem as they don't spend on anything.  The only solution here is to force them to spend part of there MD. And I think I come up with a great idea to achieve just that.

Right now every members can cashout at the end of the month. My idea is to create a new upgrade called "traders". Only traders would be allow to cashout. It would be an upgrade like the radar, we start at level 0 - Non trader than people who want to cashout can use MD to upgrade:

Level 1: Trader in training : Would allow for a $20 payout only
Level 2: Little trader: Would allow for up to $40 payout
Level 3: Normal trader: Would allow for up to $80 payout
Level 4: Ultimate trader: Unlimited payout.

Unlike the other upgrade, the trader upgrade would be put back to 0 when someone cashout. And to make it easier for you the trader upgrade should be available only from the 1st to the 20th of the month so on the 21st of each month you would know who is available for payout and for how much maximum.



The group 3 is also a big contributor to the inflation problem because once they are fully upgraded then they don't have anything else to do with their MD. The solution is to give them something to spend on. Thralen had a great idea on another thread about building a space ship. That could be done by adding a new upgrade so we have to spent MD on it or the part can be found in the ruins. As for where we should go with that space ship, I didn't really like that part of Thralen idea but I already post about expending the map with the 2 Mars satellites here:

http://www.exodus3000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582

With that idea I was also suggesting that the upgrades we have here on Mars didn't apply on the satellite (execpt radar)  so that will again make something else to spend MD.

Lostwitch

[rotinegg]

-Reducing the amount of money availiable in volcanoes and ruins is going to hurt the newbie and middle range players who are playing for fun. Same with raising the cost of upgrade or raising the level of upgrade. The goal for these players is to be able to reach 20/20 and be able to compete with the top player, anything that makes it harder on them is not fair.... they are not causing the problem as they are using their MD to upgrade so they should not have to suffer the consequence.

I have a few questions: When they reach high upgrades, they will no longer be newbie/middle range players, and will thus contribute to the problem. What are you gonna do when that happens? How do you decide who's just playing for fun and who's not? Is it possible to implement a system that only penalizes people playing for money, but doesn't hurt people playing for fun? If it is possible, is it fair? And how do you know that a person "playing for fun" will not change their mind one day and decide to get a huuuuuuuuuuuge cashout with all their MD?

-Changing the way attack/defence work to give a change to a player with lower attack to win is not fair to all the players who did work their way up to level 20/20. A change like that could have been made in August or early September but now it's just too late to make such a change.

Why is it not fair? I see no problem with it, even though I am one of those people that "did work their way up to level 20/20." With the new system, there won't be newbies with lvl 5 attack taking over defense lvl 20 settlements alll over the place. No. At best, a level 5 will have like a 0.005% chance of taking over a level 20 settlement. The odds will always be hugely in favor of the players with 20/20 upgrades.

Plus, with the new system, newbies will actually be encouraged to attack people with higher defense, and if they lose, which is very likely, they will lose money, and the person with high upgrades will make more money. So if a newbie has a 0.005% of taking over a settlement, they will succeed 1 out of 20000 tries. The other 19999 tries, they will lose MD, if they tried to attack. Say you lose 2 MD every failed attack: that's 39998 MD. I think newbie's will stop trying after they lose about 50 MD. 20/20 players might lose a settlement here and there, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Also, without this system, newbies will never be able to take over settlements that are owned by 20/20 players. Now the problem is. the majority of settlements are already taken over by 20/20 players, who don't really play the game anymore. They just hold onto settlements, check back once in a while, and newbies have no way to gain these settlements. How else would you solve this problem?

Group 1: the hoarder
Group 2: the newbie and middle range players
Group 3 the Top players (20/20)

The group 2 is not contribuing to the inflation as they are spending on upgrade as soon as they have enough money.

But once they reach 20/20, they will contribute. Massively. And with the current system, it is waaaaaaaay too easy to reach 20/20.

Those are my questions. I would like to see some answers

[rotinegg]

The group 1 is a big contributor to the inflation problem as they don't spend on anything.  The only solution here is to force them to spend part of there MD.

Let's see... I've joined 19 days ago... So far I've gotten $35 worth of Amazon Gift certificates, an Ipod shuffle, am planning on getting an Ipod Nano, and will be cashing out this month. Well, according to your definition, since I spend MD upgrading, I am not a hoarder. Agree? I think not.

Right now every members can cashout at the end of the month. My idea is to create a new upgrade called "traders". Only traders would be allow to cashout. It would be an upgrade like the radar, we start at level 0 - Non trader than people who want to cashout can use MD to upgrade:

Level 1: Trader in training : Would allow for a $20 payout only
Level 2: Little trader: Would allow for up to $40 payout
Level 3: Normal trader: Would allow for up to $80 payout
Level 4: Ultimate trader: Unlimited payout.

Unlike the other upgrade, the trader upgrade would be put back to 0 when someone cashout. And to make it easier for you the trader upgrade should be available only from the 1st to the 20th of the month so on the 21st of each month you would know who is available for payout and for how much maximum.

Me thinks you're contradicting yourself, when you have previously said:

-Putting a cap on payout. It's unfair to all players who have put money on the game to limit them on how much they can get. It's also unfair to all people who have played the game without cashing out until now. I also don't think that it's a solution that will work unless you MD are brought back to zero no matter how much is in the account.

Your new system is broken in two ways: it's just another way of putting a cap on payouts. The thing that makes it worse than simply putting a cap on payout though, is that with your new system, all the high level players and hoarders will be able to afford the "trader upgrades" while newbies and middle players won't. Basically, you just put a cap on the payouts for newbies and middle range players, while allowing the the top players and hoarders to cash out however much money they want.

The group 3 is also a big contributor to the inflation problem because once they are fully upgraded then they don't have anything else to do with their MD. The solution is to give them something to spend on. Thralen had a great idea on another thread about building a space ship. That could be done by adding a new upgrade so we have to spent MD on it or the part can be found in the ruins. As for where we should go with that space ship, I didn't really like that part of Thralen idea but I already post about expending the map with the 2 Mars satellites here:

http://www.exodus3000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582

With that idea I was also suggesting that the upgrades we have here on Mars didn't apply on the satellite (execpt radar)  so that will again make something else to spend MD.

Lostwitch

Now I like that idea. More places to spend MD on. Whatever they may be, there needs to be more of those.

[lostwitch]

The group 1 is a big contributor to the inflation problem as they don't spend on anything.  The only solution here is to force them to spend part of there MD.

Let's see... I've joined 19 days ago... So far I've gotten $35 worth of Amazon Gift certificates, an Ipod shuffle, am planning on getting an Ipod Nano, and will be cashing out this month. Well, according to your definition, since I spend MD upgrading, I am not a hoarder. Agree? I think not.

Why do you think you are a hoarder? Because you have accumulate all of this by referring new members? You have done your job by recruiting so many new valid members and you are getting the reward offered by Eric.

[rotinegg]

Because I have accumulated substantial wealth in a short period of time without any other motive than making $$$

[lostwitch]

Your new system is broken in two ways: it's just another way of putting a cap on payouts. The thing that makes it worse than simply putting a cap on payout though, is that with your new system, all the high level players and hoarders will be able to afford the "trader upgrades" while newbies and middle players won't. Basically, you just put a cap on the payouts for newbies and middle range players, while allowing the the top players and hoarders to cash out however much money they want.

See the point that you are missing here is that not everyone want to cashout every month. Some players are playing the game because they enjoy it. They might decide to cashout in a few months but for now they are playing for fun. Newbies and middle level range players fall on that group as they are playing for fun, they don't want a cashout now or they wouldn't be spending all their MD on upgrade.

The Top players, if you give them more things to do with their MD then they will not be interested in payout. And if they decide to cashout they can decide how much they want to cashout and upgrade to the right level of trader.

And this system force the hoarders to put back a part of the MD in the economy. A thing that they weren't doing before.

[tcardoso]

Level 1: Trader in training : Would allow for a $20 payout only
Level 2: Little trader: Would allow for up to $40 payout
Level 3: Normal trader: Would allow for up to $80 payout
Level 4: Ultimate trader: Unlimited payout.


Lostwitch

I agree width this ideia! I for example wouldn't buy any of this upgrades beacause I don't plann on chashing out, so it wont affect the newbie and middle players! It will affect only who wants to cashout!

I also agree to the ideia of top players having things to invest the MD! I'm near 20/20 and then what to I do  with MD?? I want to spend it...

[Ghost_Rider]

How about some sort of auctions that we could use our MDs for?  Could be for special things that usually you can't use MDs for.  Some examples would be anytime moves, advertising that didn't sell, maybe a special upgrade that ups mining bonus for newbies,  Some sort of short term transportation upgrade.  Possibilities are endless on what could be sold.  It'd be something new and fun to spend MDs on.

[soan]

An idea: Allow players to purchase multiple exploration teams.  

For 10,000 MD (or so), a player can purchase another team to explore the board.  This team shares moves with any other teams that the player already has, but does not share the attack and intelligence levels of the other teams.   Each team has to be upgraded individually for attack and intelligence.  This means that if I purchase a new team, my existing teams stay at the same levels but my new team starts off from the bottom.  Defense and security only really apply to homesteads and settlements anyway, so they are unaffected by the number of exploration teams a player has.

This is good for admin because many more MD are being spent in the game and because there will always be more opportunities for players to spend MD.  It is good for players because they are never penalized for purchasing a new team, but they can explore separate regions of the map at the same time.

[lostwitch]

Quoting an idea that I have posted in another thread a few days ago:

Maybe the map is too crowded for that but a solution to the settlement problems could be to create something like mini-settlements, that could give half the benefits of the settlements but they could only be govern by someone with defense/attack up to level 12. When someone buy a level 13 upgrade the mini-settlements are released so there will always be some up for grab for newbies making the game more interesting for them.
And a mini hall of fame page to go with it.

[lostwitch]

I have been giving some thought about map expension... I think we all agree that it is something that is needed but the question is how to do it?

Simply expending the map to 1800X1800? That could be an idea but with the homestead all grouped in the 600X600 middle area, this extension will only be good for people who can buy a premium membership. It's also still the same old same old and I think the game need more improvement than just map extension.

There is my previous idea to expend the map with the 2 Mars satellites. I really like that idea for the possibilities it will create. But going to the satellites shouldn't be something easy (not too difficult either). We should have  to build a space shuffle, or have another new upgrade to raise to a certain level... or something else that will make fully upgraded members spend their MD. So this idea is mostly to give something new  and interesting to do for fully upgraded members.

Another way to expend the map that could be done in addition of the 2 Mars satellites is to add an underground level to the map. This might not be a new idea as I vaguely remember reading something about that. It will double the map area but since it will be an underground level everyone will be able to access a part of the new map. The incentive to buy anytime move will still be there and even more since there will be free settlement available in the underground.

To access the underground you could put the crater to use (with a new image showing a deeper crater). They could have a explore button: when exporing a crater you could have 1 chance out of 3 to find a tunnel leading to the underground, 1 chance out of 3 to find a low amount of MD (2 to 15) and 1 chance out of 3 to step on something dangerous that will make you lose a low amount of MD (2 to 15). That way it will not add to the inflation but will not stop people from exporing the crater. The underground could have settlements, mines (instead of volcanoes), caverns (instead of ruins) and outpost but no homestead. We could find MD or we could find some kind of gems that could be traded for MD (at a variable rate) and maybe used for some specific new upgrade.

Happy New Year
The lostwitch

[Happy]

Hoarders play for fun, too. If it's not fun, we'll get bored and leave before we have a chance to cash out. It takes way too long to earn a cash out to play just for the money. You play a few days, see the exchange rate, compare it to the amount you've hoarded, and realize it's going to take a LONG time to reach payout. And besides, doesn't everyone who plays generate revenue, through ads, including hoarders?

We need to do a few things-

1. Increase revenue the site generates
2. Increase the time a person wants to play before cashing out
3. Get people to spend more MD (thereby receiving less payout), because they want to
4. Get people to create less MD

Some suggestions:

Give players a "cashout credit" for MD they spend on upgrades, worth about 1/10 - 1/15th of what they pay. That way hoarders would have an incentive to spend MD, because they wouldn't "lose" everything they gathered when they upgrade. Just like MD, "credits" would revert to 0 at cashout. It could be retroactive, calculating the credits players would have earned so far based on their upgrade level, so that those at 20/20 already don't get pissed at everyone else.

Ok, assuming it didn't change player behavior that would actually put more MD equivalent into the system, but I think it would result in less animosity towards hoarders, as it would tilt things a little less in their direction. If things go well, you'll have more hoarders doing upgrades, and less MD in the system.

Another idea is to allow people, after doing say fifty moves in a day, to convert their remaining daily moves into "bonus" anytime moves, at a rate of 5 regular moves = 1 "bonus" anytime move, capping it at maybe 500. That way they could save up to go on longer missions, while creating fewer MDs total. Premium members could convert at a 3 to 1 rate, without having to use any moves during the day first, capping it at 2500. If a premium member discontinues their premium membership, they could retain the moves they saved, but not be able to add to them past 500 and the conversion rate would return to 5 to 1.

Also, there should be more things to do that are fun besides finding MD. Maybe there could be an underground tunnel system that people could explore. No MD, but there could be other bonuses like little flags you could win to decorate your home base. Ok, I'm sure someone has better ideas, but right now the only non-MD creating things we have are the forum and attacking players/settlements.

For increasing revenue, maybe we could sell Exodus gear, like T-shirts? Who knows.

I have been giving some thought about map expension... I think we all agree that it is something that is needed but the question is how to do it?

Simply expending the map to 1800X1800? That could be an idea but with the homestead all grouped in the 600X600 middle area, this extension will only be good for people who can buy a premium membership.

Expand underground! Have it maybe 4-10 levels deep?